10 Unexpected 2022 Predictions for the Water Industry: Will we actually strike?

Hey Water Industry, Nostradamus called: What’s to expect from 2022?

Did you know that futurologists and experts had a tendency to be more often wrong on average than anyone doing a coin flip? Still, we tried to figure out what may happen next year in the Water Sector.

What came out of it, is not a list of our 10 surest bets, but a specific take on the matter. We tried to only pick bets, that would have a significant impact on water professionals – you’ll tell us if we succeeded.

So long story short, here are our 10 picks for 2022 – with our best guess at their probability. Check it out ⬇️

PS: That’s our first show in the new format. What do you think of it? Come tell us on Linkedin!

PPS: Find the audio version of that episode here!

S2E1 – What’s to expect from 2022? Here are our 10 bets!

10 Bets for the Water Industry in 2022: Transcript

These are computer-generated, so expect some typos 🙂

10 Bets for 2022

Antoine Walter: Hi, everybody. Welcome to this new episode of, well, no, it’s not time for wastewater anymore. We have a new logo somewhere like at one bitch last year, somewhere here you’re in. What’s that what’s that logo.

Björn Otto: Yeah. That’s how, when you’ve watched a show, right. So good afternoon, Antoine. Welcome to our show. And first of all, Antoine, happy birthday, even if it’s your birthday is our 10th show.

So it’s all an anniversary show and yeah, for whatever reason, we changed it with the concept. But first of all, I would like to share with you and wish you all the best take care and today yeah. What come to the audience? I’m good to have. And now you have realized that a little bit, we have our anniversary show our tents, um, and we changed a little bit.

Yeah. Every sing. And we were, you know, we would tell you a little about that during the show. But the first thing, as already mentioned by Antoine, we are no longer, um, the time for wastewater, we are the water show. Hey, come on to the

Antoine Walter: water show. No people tell me happy birthday. It’s not my birthday. It’s, it’s the, it’s the birthday of the show.

My birthday is in December. Unfortunately it’s not right now, but we can act as if it’s my birthday. And we say that, whatever I say today is going to be gold because we will be predicting what’s happening. What’s happening next year. So let’s say it’s my birthday. So you have to be kind with me.

Björn Otto: No, nobody’s kind of was you right?

I mean, we have our tents show and I’m still struggling. Why I’m still here. Why I’m here.

Antoine Walter: Good question probably against me. You liked it, this fighting atmosphere, but you know, we have a packed agenda for today. So what I propose you is to jump into it. Are you ready for that? I’m ready. Let’s go. Okay. So let’s start with our new Jingo.

So welcome to the water show Buren. You’re the one opening. What do you have to tell us as an opening to that new show?

Björn Otto: Yeah, first of all, I mean, we have the, we have a new concept. You already saw that and we also do have a partner for the show and the partner for today’s show for the anniversary show is Sarah FinTech.

And Sarah FinTech is the world’s most experienced technology supplier. That, that is at least what they mentioned on the web page, but there is in reality much more because they are one of the pony is in terms of ceramic membrane filtration technology, because their journey started already 1993 was the first patent.

I’m not sure Antoine that you was already born in 1993. I was, I was five. Okay. Okay. Okay. But you know, very, very small one. And then it took a while for sort of Filtek until they came out with Cicero Filtek company, because this was established in 2016. And since that time they really rocket the ceramic flat sheet market.

Honestly, just to give you two numbers, meanwhile, they have realized more than 100 ceramic membrane projects in 29 countries and more important, more. Uh, the total capacity of the installation is more than 400,000 cubic meters a day. So that’s pretty cool. And I know that they definitely have something more in the pocket to crash these numbers.

Anyway, finally, um, they also, they also won a benchmark task in Rome, Georgia, and the U S for PFS removal against UFO technology. INX change technology against grand new activated carbon technology. And it turned out that not only in, you know, the PFS remove a capacity of 99% was there also, they have in terms of the TCO, total cost of ownership.

Uh, the bad or out, right? So their total cost of ownership was the lowest one, which is pretty, pretty impressive. So the question is a little bit what’s next to Sarah. Filtek either the word supremacy or Sarah Filtek were replaced or pulling their membranes, but Wade wasn’t there, wasn’t there an article that they already mentioned in 10 years, there will be no poli mem member an application anymore, and they will be replaced by ceramic.

Antoine Walter: If that’s your fruit, I go against

Björn Otto: it. We will see, we will see happy to have. Have you hear Sarah vertex? Thanks for joining us. Thanks for partnering us now. It’s your turn. I’m Tom.

Antoine Walter: Good. Well, actually I’m not the one opening. The first bet is with you Buren, but we have an introduction for your bet. Have a look at that one.

Björn Otto: I truly believe that the format, I suppose, this Bible we’re burst next year in 2022. And the reason why is clearly there’s no proof. There is no client base. There is no really movement and this, since more than 10 years, finally, it has come to an end. And in 2022 forward has mostly followed. We’ll go down, but I’m not saying a hundred percent, I’m saying 70% because of just one grief, because trivia system found a way to raise another couple of millions to have another shot, to try to prove the system.

That’s the only reason why I’m not going to a hundred percent.

Antoine Walter: So the concept for today is this symbol. We have 10 bets, so 10 small videos, and one of us is going to present that bet here. It was Buren about the photos, Moses, and then we’ll discuss a bit about that. So I’m just expanding it for the first one.

And I had a first question for you bureau. You mentioned there was this, um, invest investment difference, which makes you think that maybe for this Moses would still be alive. Can you tell me a bit more? Because I was wondering when I was watching your interview.

Björn Otto: Yeah, for sure. I mean, in principle, what, what, you know, the idea was, uh, that this would go down due to the fact that we don’t have seen any proof really, right.

I mean, there there’s one major company, which is always in our mind, if it comes to Florida’s Moses, which is aquaporin, which is really, really a great company from Denmark. But if you look at the key financials, I mean, in 2018, they were close to 8 million and meanwhile, they have 5.5. So the numbers go down and we don’t see the proof.

And that’s why I’m saying all, let’s say the good thing is that aquaporin has also something different in their portfolio. Not only for us Moses, but it doesn’t look good. The only thing is that there are other players and for us, Moses also on the market and they raised the capital of the audience to come

Antoine Walter: up.

If you allow me just to understand, you said that number goes down, but you’re right. It’s. Of of, of the turnover which goes down, but the, the valuation of the company is still goes up so that, you know, something that the markets

Björn Otto: and I don’t know really, but let’s say if I look at the statement, I have the statement already in front of me.

I have the balance sheet in front of me. The cashflow ha it is, it is, it is not so good. And all other forwarders Moses company looks same. So the question is there something happening over the next years? And the next time in 2022, definitely something will happen. Uh, as I said, the good thing is aquaporin has more on the portfolio than just for us Moses, because I believe in the concept of this company, they are really, really great.

But for us, Moses, from the technology point of view, I’m not sure.

Antoine Walter: Okay. So if I get your rights for this, Moses will be a dead horse next year. And why 70 persons?

Björn Otto: What? Oh, I mean, I mean, yeah, the reason was only, I mean, due to the fact that they Trevon was, was raising another, I think 10 millions, was it, uh, four, four, therefore was most of the technology.

Maybe we extend a little bit the period of time, but we will have, we will reach the end one day and the one day where we not far away, I would say,

Antoine Walter: okay, sounds clear for Florida smoothies. So ask for the full 10 bets. If you have a strong opinion, don’t hesitate. Just share it in the chats and we’ll take it on the end of the, of the show right now.

And let’s move to number two. And number two is.

Lets me use some buzzwords I’ve been discussing in the past, how the roadmap to digitization has four levels, level one, you have a digital version of your plant or water network, the famous digital twin level two, that digital twin is active and you can run modeling or even artificial intelligence on it.

Level three, it runs by itself and gives you some hints at operating your Flint. My bet is that when we reach level four on at least one large wastewater treatment plants in 2022, the digital twin will run by itself and actually operate the plants. And I’m giving it a probability of 99%. So you see a strong opinion there.

I’m pretty sure this happens and more than pretty. These will happen next.

Björn Otto: Why do you sing? This will happen where this will happen. Always supports installation. Whereas the first

Antoine Walter: installation, where is a good question, but if you look right now, there is a debate in the UK because they had this, uh, sewer overflow, uh, which were identified by artificial intelligence because their, their thoughts that their plants were fully right.

And in fact, there’s one thing which artificial intelligence detects much better than any human brain. And that is a pattern as soon as there’s a pattern in the data, AI finds it and identifies it and says there’s something. And that means that if we had let’s a AI, sorry, run those splints. We could have probably avoided at least a part of the 600 sewer overflows.

So we did be the UK because that, that terrible experience. For sure. It’s not going to be the U S because there was this problem with data safety last year in Texas. So I don’t see them like going back and burning their hands on it. Um, but for sure there will be a plant. And I would be, I wouldn’t be surprised if that plant was in China or in middle east, just to show, you know, there is a high challenge with voice with the treatments, and that is the opportunity to go a bit further into this direction of distributed treatments or to numerous units, which are a bit out there, and which are really powerful when operating the right way, which might be with.


Björn Otto: don’t believe that I don’t believe that, especially not the 99% because we as a company, which company should do this, tell me the company. I mean, you need a data company in our water sector who is able to run this plant. Show me, where is it? 99%. I mean, it’s pretty high. So it should be

Antoine Walter: somewhere you can go to, to, to my podcast feed.

And you listen to too many of them. Actually, I don’t believe there is one. I do believe that like 10 or 20 companies, I think honestly, the technology is there to run the plant so far. They are limited by the acceptance of the market. I mean, going to the level three, it’s about telling everyone, you know, you should be moving that valve.

You should be adding a bit more of that. You should be putting a bit more of oxygen in your biological tank. You should be putting a bit more or a bit less chemicals. So today we already have the tools and the software to do that. The only difference is now to say, instead of advising the operator to do it, let’s do.

And tell the operators, we did it. And then the operator has still the choice to say, no, wait I correct it. But spontaneously the AI, the software, the model, whatever you’re using would be doing it itself. To quote, on my podcast several months ago, he said, you know, uh, an emission is never going to grease a bump and he was fully, right.

So I’m not saying we will be disrupting operators and operators will disappear. I’m saying that maybe the plans can be. By itself in the middle of the night, on the weekends or between Christmas and new year. Okay. Okay.

Björn Otto: Got it. Got your point. I mean, in principle, what I learned during my university time is to, you know, to design a wastewater treatment plant is not rocket science, so it’s pretty simple, right?

You have just a couple of parameters of bring them together. And then, you know, the size, you know, how big the size of the punk, uh, tank pump and everything must be why such an easy task for AI? Why not going directly into the, you know, tough challenges like industrial water treatment. Why going to, you know, to the municipalities where you have the regulation issue also, I mean, you have to, uh, you have to overcome this.

You have to convince the governments are charities and things like this to be accepted in the market. And you already mentioned that you need the acceptance and you will not get this. Why not? Why not going directly into a market where you really have to show the proof? I

Antoine Walter: mean, this is a fair point fair point.

I’m not saying it’s. Necessarily in the, in the municipal world, it might be happening in industry because in the industry, as you said, you might be a bit less constrained by regulation and it can be a bit more, let’s say, um, innovative, which is now a broad way to say it, but there’s also all the parameters which come into play.

Let’s say, you’re an industry and you do something wrong with the environment. Then you go to the press. And I mean, there might be all the consequences. All I’m saying is that the technology allows it already today. And if we are not doing it yet, it’s because we don’t dare to do it. And it’s about daring.

And if you look at the silver wave right now, we are in a sector where more and more and more knowledge is retiring and a bit less knowledge is entering into the sector. So maybe a part of the solution to the silver wave. And again, I’m not jumping to conclusions saying that AI is going to replace everything.

I’m just saying that maybe a portion of the solution might lie in the fact that we allow our tools to help us.

Björn Otto: Okay, but I don’t see 99%. That means honestly it is, are saying next year it will come for sure.

Antoine Walter: Yes. Yes. The only reason I left one person opened it because I knew you were going to react to that way.

Björn Otto: I mean, I would love to see one of these plants, which is, which are fully automated and operated by AI. So I’m the last one who’s against us, but I don’t, but I don’t see it so far us, because what I see is right now that even the cloud issue was is, is, is not solved. So the supply companies are fighting against each other, what to do with the data.

And that’s why it is the open field for all the ground force and vital coming to the market and getting the data because the acquiring APCs and OEM contractors that is exactly predictive maintenance to get the data. So we are on this stage and we are not in the fully AI stage. That’s 99%. I bet against you.

Antoine Walter: There’s a lot to unpack in what you just said. Let’s, let’s spark a bit of that because I know there’s one of your beds, which goes in the, into the direction,

Björn Otto: but maybe 20, 23, 24, not next

Antoine Walter: year, I said, it’s going to be fully automated. I’m not saying it’s necessarily AI. It might be modeling. It might be machine learning might be a combination of all of those.

I’m not just pouring buzzwords at the problem. I’m just saying that the hydraulic models are around since the eighties and nineties, it’s just stupid. That 30 years later we select, you know, are we sure they can do that? Honestly, I’m an idyllic engineer. All of these models are making hydraulics much better than I will ever do.


Björn Otto: You’re extending a little bit of your time. Right. But I think we are clear. We all agree against you that this will not happen. Okay. Next

Antoine Walter: one. I love what we make generalities. Let’s move to your third bet and let’s take the, the discussion towards that. Please.

Björn Otto: I’m predicting in 2022 or sorry. The iPad exhibition show in Munich will be canceled. Oh wow. Okay. To be, to be very clear, I don’t believe that they will be counseled, but I’m pretty sure there is a high chance that that will again, be postponed to autumn. And the reason why, I mean, look at Germany, look at the numbers.

What happened right now as while we do have a new government, and I’m pretty sure that they have new fancy ideas, how to solve this crisis here. 50% chances that the iPad show next year will be postponed.

Antoine Walter: How are you captain abuse?

Björn Otto: I mean, look at, look at the fact that, I mean, the numbers are going dramatically up, um, as well, we have a new government and they have become, we really have a new government, right. I think the election is for tomorrow. Um, and they will come up with pretty fancy ideas and new ideas. And I think the chances that I will be postponed is pretty high due to the fact that it’s in Bavaria, Bavaria is a hotspot for, you know, for the COVID thing that we have here in Germany.

And that’s why this, uh, you know, there’s a high chance that this may happen. Other than that, maybe a, some strong regulations, uh, something will happen, but not as free as for instance, the architect was last year, that something definitely will

Antoine Walter: happen. It might be that a Aquatech is an experience to them because, you know, uh, Finding it quite, quite funny and funny with all the quotation marks we were at Equitec we did our show live from Aquatech.

None of us was wearing any masks, face masks or any, any kind of stuff like that. And, uh, and just two weeks later, they were talking of lockdowns in, uh, in the Netherlands, which gives us a sense of. I mean,

Björn Otto: I mean, the good, the good thing is let’s say the good thing for the iPad show is that it is a end of may, beginning of June next year.

So it was pretty late and it is definitely after the spring period. So the numbers will be down, but let’s say if they are coming up with new ideas, with new lockdowns, with new, in our laws, it could be that they extend an extent and they will have an impact on the show. So be aware, I’m just saying 50% that something could happen with this show.

Again, I don’t hope so because you know, we have pretty big plans for the show, but it could be so be

Antoine Walter: prepared. Okay. None of us is epidemiologist. So I propose you to switch back to you to water topics if that’s right with you,

Björn Otto: but it is about a topic, right? I mean, we all, we all want to go there. We will all want to meet there.

Do you want to reopen

Antoine Walter: the topic of if an exhibition in a trade show is still, this is a reentry. Yeah, we discussed that.

Björn Otto: And I mean, the, the opinion from audience was pretty clear, right? So they were all happy that they will be there. So you lost the romantically.

Antoine Walter: I love how you lie. Let’s go to bed

this year. Equity sold enough vice to Autodesk for $1 billion. Does it make it a unicorn? Not fully as this no longer privately owned and as its valuation did not exceed $1 billion yet that clearly shows that with rising valuations, the impossible may become possible. Hence I’m betting the 2022, we’ll see a water sector unicorn showing the list of 925 currently existing ones.

And I’m giving it a probability of 60%. Who will it be? That’s might come in the next space.

Björn Otto: Yeah, but I mean, the point is, if you’re coming with it with a thing like this, you have to, you know, we in Germany, we say hosel on there. That means who is it? Who will it be? Who will be the unicorn? I mean, I have a bad, but I would like to hear your names.


Antoine Walter: Before that, before giving a name, let’s be clear what we’re talking about. I’m a bit picky by saying that is not the first unicorn, just because they are at 1 billion and not $1,000,000,001. So I’m really picky with the definition. So that’s the first part. And the second thing is that they are no longer privately owned.

So that is really being absolutely picky. That being said, the criteria means that it could be one company rising from the bottom and becoming absolutely brilliant and huge, or it could be also your favorite topic, several private company coming together and building something big. And the reason why I’m mentioning that is that

Björn Otto: that’s not a unique definition.

Antoine Walter: Come on. It is, it is a unique code. Private capital, which is pushing a company is a unicorn basically, basically speaking. And if you look at that was a business model, which wasn’t that much existing in the water sector in the past. But remember with the new Suez, we will have a company which is the third largest company and fully privately owned by private capital.

I don’t say Suez is that unicorn. I’m not cheating with that. I’m just saying that when the biggest companies out there start to adopt that model, it means it gives like, like the way. And if I remember right, there was an article from global water intelligence a couple of months ago, which was predicting that private capital’s engagement would be doubling over the next decade into the water sector.

I don’t know how, how they back that. I don’t know what’s the data which tells them it’s going to double and not multiply by 10 or divided by two. But I’m just putting that here. It sounds like. There is an appeal for that. It’s no longer necessarily. If you’re building something, you will be acquired by a very large company or go to an IPO.

It sounds like the third way of building a unicorn is something which becomes one of the targets. And to give you a spoiler into my tomorrow’s interview with Luke Butler, from Ketchum, what is said at the very end of the interview is it’s not a matter of, is it possible, but it’s a matter of time. And he was speaking of his own company.

But you catch them is not going to be the unicorn for 2022. They might be on the longer run, but it’s a bit too short for them to become a unicorn next year. But when that mentality starts to pour down within the water industry, I think that can make a big difference. You know

Björn Otto: what you’re talking about unicorn, and you’re coming again with these French company names.

So I’m not sure what is wrong here. I mean, if it is, let’s see if it is a unicorn, it must be something disruptive. I mean, this is really what we are looking for, right? Yeah. But this is everybody has yet you are talking just about the financial perspective, but let’s say SU. To be a unit to, to put in one sentences with unicorn, uh, I sing that is not the right way.

So for instance, for instance, I give you a name. I give you a name because, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m pretty clear more than you are because you know, it, disruptive technology is a technology who’s able to enter into the market and all other folks. And that could be, for instance, that could be, um, you know, the online monitoring for a bacteria that could be one market because he has one company who’s able to measure bacterias in a second and others take two to three days.

So this is disruptive. This is something completely new. And this could be a unicorn for 2022 with the companies called orb, right? So this is some, this is, you know, this is a company you should put on list and not Zumiez again. Come

Antoine Walter: on. No, no, no. Don’t, don’t make me say what I didn’t say. And didn’t put Susan on the list that said private capital is coming massively into the market.

And I think we have to be clear about the definition of innovation. Innovation doesn’t have to be disruptive. Innovation is not Archie made is coming out of his bath and see Orica and, and, and walking naked in the streets. Innovation can be something which you had in the past and we should do slightly better.

And that’s slightly better. Might be already very, very different to the market. Look at the example you’re giving, there’s already tons of ways to measure bacteriological activity in water, but not in the second company. Not in a second. Yeah, but that’s my point. That’s not disruptive. That is continuous innovation and that’s absolutely fantastic.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying. I think that it has to be a YouTuber. They wouldn’t, they would never be a YouTuber in the water sector. It’s not, we are not this kind of sector. And it’s absolutely fine that way. It’s just that the unicorn we will see in the water world will be one of these. I mean, I said it because right now there’s 925 unicorns.

What I did my video on the value of the water sector compared to tick-tock I had looked at same statistic and it was 700 something. So there’s always more unicorns and most of them, but you don’t know them. I don’t know them. So there are lots of unicorns, which are just a sign that something’s happening in the market, but still it’s not this kind of, you know, this, I can’t remember the name of this DECA unicorn.

We tried to reaching these 10 billions and then these 100 billions and we creating new categories. I’m just. There is something new in that sector. You don’t have to necessarily go to NASDAQ or drones or whatever, or being bought by the specialist company to buy a company and to make a big profit over it.

And to, to, to have this structure of building up, stacking up like a vocal Xylem or dental hair, that’s all I’m saying. Okay. You can disagree with that.

Björn Otto: I think we have, we have, we have different ways how we think about unicorns and as always, as always

Antoine Walter: let’s discuss consolidation in the sector and a thing that is your next bet.


Björn Otto: please. We will have immediate change in terms of the EPC structure we have in Europe, we will have just four dominant players left on the market, which is re-enforce ski on water we all year, or this is how I grew up. And if you do not belong to one of these, four will be definitely a hard time for you.

And the chances that this will happen, you have a pretty high, more than 90% watch out. Oh yeah. That’s definitely something we see. And I mean, I mean, this is obviously right, this is obviously right, but maybe you have a different opinion on


Antoine Walter: as well. Actually. Let’s look at your list. Who did you mention?

You mentioned ski on and soar, which has, which are privately owned. Right. And you mentioned , which is a foundation. So three out of your, four of which you name as the future EPC for 20, 22 are exactly like I said, just in my bed before. So you agree.

Björn Otto: No, but I would never say these are unicorns. Come on. I mean, you are just seeing unicorns because of the financial numbers, but I’m, and I think the definition for unicorn is also is this disruptive for the market and not only

Antoine Walter: where you come from to understand where you’re going, that’s all I’m saying.

Björn Otto: No, but let’s let’s, I mean, we, again, discussing your perspective of the market, but let’s say let’s have a different look. I mean, I have a question for you. I mentioned these four, I mean mentioned. Yeah, exactly. Let me put this in context. We put, we put in context, let’s say we named sour group because their flagship is in iOS is NIO CPC.

We mentioned ski on their flagship, our as well. we mentioned, also grown for us. I mean, we all know that they are acquiring the half, half market right now because you know, predictive maintenance. We talked about that.

Antoine Walter: I just have a question for you since when is going first, an ABC. Well, they will.

Björn Otto: Okay, will you believe me? Believe me. I mean, they already acquired, acquired, you know, your award, which is a small OEM, you know, maybe a little EPC for a tiny small market, but believe me, there’s more to come for grand first.

Antoine Walter: Okay. Now you said too few or too much?

Björn Otto: No, I mean, there’s nothing, there’s nothing official, but we all know that they are running over the market and looking for APCs that’s that’s for sure. So they want to go into the market is the same as Weiler Wilo has a different view and is going for, for different level.

But growing force is putting the big money on the table right now.

Antoine Walter: I’d like to understand also you for EPC, you’re saying that the market will be down at least in Europe to this for APCs. Yes. The only one that may be

Björn Otto: dominated, and if you don’t belong to the four, it will be a tough time. That’s what, that was my statement.

Because, you know, look, look at this, look at skew on, I mean, they have the municipal market there for the industrial market was two APCs. They have even, this has split it into process and wastewater. Uh, we have grown force, which will be the play a number we have Veolia, which can, can generally play the entire water, water, uh, you know, application.

And we have summer group and the surrogate group was NIOS even they, I mean, they are very focused on, on wastewater, but even they, they can do a lot of other things as well. So if you don’t believe, if you don’t belong to them, it

Antoine Walter: will be tough for. So you’re saying if you, if you’re , if you’re Waterloo, if you’re Suez, you’re in big, big, big trouble for 20.

I mean,

Björn Otto: I mean, Babak here in Europe. Doesn’t play any role for sure. I mean, they play a big role in, in, in Switzerland, maybe a little bit in Austria, but for the rest of the country, they don’t play a big role. They are very, very strong in other countries, especially in India because it’s an Indian company.

Meanwhile, so Waterloo definitely will be tough time for them. That’s that’s the right example you picked.

Antoine Walter: Yep. And Suez,

Björn Otto: uh, we don’t know what will come with us. We have no clue. And I’m pretty sure because I have a French colleague and friend he’s updating me all the time about the news about Veolia zoos and things like this.

I’m pretty sure something today will happen. And he will tell us again about the news of .

Antoine Walter: Okay. But let’s stay for now on this question of what we see coming in terms of consolidation. I think that’s my next bet. So let’s move to that.

There are different winning strategies when you play monopoly yet in the real world, those strategies follow some fashion for a while. The trend in the water sector has been on the combination of horizontal groups, specializing in a certain section of the value chain, but across multiple industries and have niche players specializing in the section and an industry.

Yet my bet is that next year we will see a new vertical giant go against these trends and go from the grassroots hardware up to the most digital layer of services through the entire value chain in the purest 19th century style doubter site, chances 70%. So actually what I’m saying here is that we might see a new giant, which we, which is going to go vertical, which if I take your list of four, which we gave just before would be the case, for instance, for force, if we assume they become an EPC, I’m not saying the giant will be for, I’m just saying that this strategy, which sounded to be a bit gone for a while.

Seems to be back with the vertical of going from really the bolts and nuts up to the services and to, to, to the operation. And that seems to have vantage because if you remember in the nineties, that was a bit, the business model of, of Veolia and Suez to say, okay, we go on the food vertical and they had some difficulties with that.

So, so they went a bit, I mean, Veolia stepped down from the equipment business and Suez somehow stepped down from the infrastructure business. So there were these, this major elements and, and now, I mean, I’ve been discussing, uh, on my podcast microphone with some startups who are really saying, okay, we go against all the advices and all the books and we start with the hardware and we try to build up.

So I’m saying, um, I don’t have the one which is going to emerge because I do believe that the one which is going to emerge is most, probably for next year, going to be a series of M and a. So I guess going forward here is the usual suspect. It’s not the only one. And I will clearly see others going into that, that direction.

Which one?

Björn Otto: Which one? And what, I mean, the question for me is a bit, why, why do you think there will be come a real giant for the market? I mean, we see a little bit the consolidation. Yeah. I mean, a lot of stuff is ongoing at the moment, but let’s say that we have a clear giant. Maybe the Veolia thing is, could be, could be one of them, but let’s say I don’t really see this, but why, why do you

Antoine Walter: think this?

I think what changed everything on the vertical compared to the original strategy, which was the dominant one for a while, and is still the dominant one. What changed everything is the importance of controlling your data from, from, from a to Z and to be able to leverage whatever small, very little signal you have on your bolts and nuts.

And to bring that up to the upper sphere of, of services. And, you know, there’s this trend right now to, to leverage all the buzzwords and all, all the, the, the winds and in the direction where the sale. Because if you look, we had the DBO, which was boring to everyone for 30 years. Now we call it water as a service.

And it was, everybody’s like, wow, we can have water as a service yet. Come on. That is the business model of the water industry for awhile. But if you start marketing it the right way, then the vertical really makes sense. And yeah.

Björn Otto: Okay. Got it. Got your point. Let’s say, but, but it shouldn’t be the suspect here in this case than if you really think this will be the case.

Shouldn’t be the suspect really silent.

Antoine Walter: Yeah. That would be my other one. Let’s imagine Xylem, um, goes into process a bit more than they do today because they have this full vertical. I mean, it’s always the same, depending on who you talk with about silent. When, when you, when you hear people, some of them love Xylem, and then it will tell you, this is the example of the company.

And some others are a bit more on the hatred side and say, it’s a pump company. So you have to find probably the in-between. But if Exabeam wants to do kind of the series of MNA they regularly do, and this rotation of asset, they regularly do, I wouldn’t be surprised exactly. It becomes one of these giant because they have for them, this culture of.

Um, don’t get me wrong with the term, but a Frankenstein of different parts of, of different kinds of pieces of the market. So Xylem would have been, honestly, my suspect, if you hadn’t said corn first.

Björn Otto: Okay. So what was your, what was your bat? 60% that we get a giant over the next year.

Antoine Walter: To me, it’s a matter of time.

I’m sure it will happen, but, uh, but not necessarily next year, what I’m saying, you

Björn Otto: know that each and every bed you are putting on the table, we bet about 50 bucks. Right? So if you lose you own me 50,

Antoine Walter: oh, I will own you a lot of money because I’m taking risks and not saying COVID is going to be a problem, you know?

Um, I’m a bit more risky than that. No, but maybe it’s important as well to, to, to understand what I, what I mean by giant. What we call giant is the water industry in another industry would be a dwarf. I mean, you take a , you take it against Coca-Cola or Pepsi. It’s a dwarf. It’s not even a, but as Cola to take an extreme example.

Uh, what I want to say here is that it’s a giant in the sense that it has a meaningful portion of that extremely scattered market. So a giant to me would be a company which is able to go to two or 3% of the market, because that would be already pretty different from the way that market works. Okay.

Björn Otto: Okay, good.

Let’s see, let’s see who the Don will be at. We’ll be definitely interested because we have seen so much over the last month, last two years, a lot of staff was ongoing and in terms of acquisition and merging and things like this, and I’m pretty sure 20, 22, we will see something unexpected. Let’s see, what’s an

Antoine Walter: angle.

Let’s go to your next.

Björn Otto: The water tariffs for next year will dramatically go up. And I’m not talking about 2, 3, 4, 5%. No, I’m talking about 20% plus. And the reason why simple, we actually do have the global crisis, right? So that means inflation. At the moment we talked about four or 5% here in Europe, even more in north America, but that’s just one reason.

The other reason is that the electricity will go up dramatically. We are talking about 20 to 30% right now. So the prediction for next years, by more than 80% of the water turfs flow dramatically increase.

Antoine Walter: I have a question for you when you say the terrorists will dramatically increase.

Björn Otto: I mean I’m principle investor in Europe, definitely in the Western world.

Sorry, not only Western Europe, because I mean, look at, I mean, the numbers I was looking was just the inflation or let’s say other way wrong. Let’s, let’s take this entire story because I got my terrorists in terms of electricity for next year. And guess what, what happened? I have an increase in my electricity for next year of 25%.

This is totally the same. If I go into the inflation because the inflation in Germany is 5.2%. The inflation in Europe is 5%. The inflation in the us is more than 6%, but out of the inflation, if you just look to the energy, the energy went up in Europe, 28% in the us 30%. And this goes in line with my bill I got for next year.

So that’s why I’m saying, and we all know that electricity or energy is the major driver for waterproof. And that’s why the tariffs has to go up. That’s why I’m saying this.

Antoine Walter: Okay. The reason why I was asking is that if you’re looking, you said Western world. So, so if you look at the U S in many cities, we are talking about doubling the tariffs.

So you say 20%, you say 20% plus. So doubling would still be right, but I’m just saying that right now, there is a high, high speed increase of, of water terrorists. And, um, I remember we had that discussion around, you know, value of water and probably that’s the most hated video on my YouTube channel. When I’m saying that’s water service should go higher.

Um, because in many places, and then people oppose me, the fact that, you know, in many countries, um, they simply don’t have access to water, but to me, those are not antagonist things at all. So I’m not reopening the debate. I just wanted to frame it. And if people want to reopen that debate, let’s not do it on that show, but whenever you want, I’d be very happy to take the time.

To explain my point on that. Um, regarding the water terrorist, you’re saying it’s going to increase following electricity, but is it a good or a bad thing that, that they

Björn Otto: go up? Yeah. I mean, it’s a bad same because I have to pay more. C’mon. I mean, if, if I, if I just, if I just look, you know, for, let’s say very short perspective, I mean, how could that be good.

Give me one reason. I mean, who’s getting the money, the electricity, not the water.

Antoine Walter: Yeah. Yes and no, because, um, whatever incentive you have to, to reduce your water use to loop your water and your house to, uh, to, to reuse a gray water, to reuse the rainwater or whatever, clever management of water you may do.

I mean, all of that has a cost at the very beginning. And if you start by saying, okay, it’s these expensive. And sustainable than the most expensive it is to be unsustainable. The stronger the incentive is to become sustainable.

Björn Otto: Yeah. True. Very true. But let’s say I definitely am. I’m pretty sure that was this bad.

I’m um, you know, I’m very close to win my 50 bucks next year. Um,

Antoine Walter: I’m just thinking that one, because that is exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. What about the middle east countries? And I’m not thinking just that one on where we will go to all the other ones. There’s a lot of cool comments in the chat.

What I want to say with that one is that that is exactly to my point. The salination used to be extremely expensive and was extremely expensive. There was an incentive, you know, to try to make the best out of every drop of water with the 60 to 70% of the words instead of installed base, which is right now in the middle east.

Well, dissemination went, you know, the story when drastically down in price. And today we are at the point where in those places, which are very area, which have very low levels of water, we use quite a lot of water just because water became so inexpensive. So I’m just saying maybe the water is rising is more of a good news than anything else, because if you keep the things at their right magnitude water, even if you’re in the poorest area and the water is pretty expensive, it is still four to 5% of your, of your income.

You can afford it, you can afford it. So. Trying to put that into perspective because to me, and I know that is a debate where we all disagree and where I am a strong minority, and I’m really happy to be a minority. I see that as a good news. When what, okay.

Björn Otto: Okay. We got it. I think we can have an, uh, a single single episode just about this.

And I know that you are pushing me hard to this, but I just want to say one more word to the Urus Morris who said, Hey, just for the record, Waterloo is

Antoine Walter: having record results. Oh no, no, no. We, we, we take that one after I I’ve, I’ve I’ve taken, I’ve taken it.

Björn Otto: It’s important to answer this, right? Because this goes not against what I said.

I’m pretty sure Waterloo is a pretty cool company and they have record results, but it will be tough in future. That’s all I’m saying.

Antoine Walter: Good. So we have a lot of things to pick in the chat, so let’s move to our next.

Björn Otto: And it looks like that the people are becoming awake, right? People are coming, you know, putting stuff into the chat and let’s sound to the next topic.

Antoine Walter: Let me start by. High-fiving the younger me. When I started at Suez a decade ago, I’m old. One of my first presentation was about ballast water treatment. And lets me tell you eat didn’t H well, I was predicting a 53% compound annual growth rate for ballast water treatment technologies, which would become by 2020, a $34 billion annual market.

Yet I did not invent those numbers, which even don’t play the most optimistic provisions of market research companies, those same markets, specialty, snow, predict that what was supposed to massively take off in 2010 will actually do it into a 2 22, hence this beds, but that’s what the treatment is finally going to boom, next year probability one person.

Okay. So my point here is that we are making a show about the future and we are making ourself look clever. Like, you know, we know the future. There’s one thing, you know, theoretically, when you are launching a coin, there’s one out of two chances that you bet the right side. When you look at the futurology and the future geologists all the time, when they predict something, their chances of being wrong is above 70%.

Just because sometimes we don’t want to predict something, something obvious you want to do clever. And that makes you predict stupid stuff. So, but that’s the water to me is the typical example. I really recall every year, every year, there are three to 10 articles who say, Next year, the regulation is going to come into force.

And when that comes, it’s going to be billions. And I’ve seen companies investing heavily into that. And then whether divesting or going belly up and disappearing and all the saying, Hey, those guys were wrong because they invested 10 years too early. I’m going into it. And then exactly the same story, which is repeating and repeating and repeating.

But that’s water treatment is something. And there are company which are thriving in that sphere. And there is a lot of good things to do within various water treatment, but it’s not going to change the world. That’s my point.

Björn Otto: You know, all, like, all I can say is I a hundred percent agree with you. There’s nothing I can say against it because I have the same experience over and over and over this topic comes on the table and nothing really happened.

So why should something really happen next year? Never, ever. This is one of the topics, uh, like, like, you know, micro pollutants, micro pollutants would enter the entire ward and it’s a big, big topic. Yeah. It is a big, big topic since decades. Meanwhile, and it is just, you know, important for a couple of areas over the world, but not for is the same as palace for a little bit, but not for all.

So 1% I agree. I give you the 50 bucks. Let’s jump to the next.

Next year, there will be a disruptive technology, which challenge the incinerator market. Why is that? Because we all know that this latch industry right now is under evaluation. We need to find in technology to get rid of this notch because we can’t bring them any more to the fierce. Great. Now we have just Mona incineration.

Who’s dominating the market. I’m betting that next year, there will be a disruptive technology who would challenge incinerated industry and the chances that this will happen. 10%, very conservative industry. Everybody

Antoine Walter: sees that we make the same jokes.

Björn Otto: So yeah, but you use some more video first, so you copied my joke, right?

So anyway,

Antoine Walter: I saw your video and I saw the title that we had scheduled for that bet. And honestly, I’m not sure. And the students, can you just explain what.

Björn Otto: My breath that disruptive technology will come up next year to go into the slash market against all the mono and, uh, you know, incineration technologies.

Antoine Walter: That’s the link. I don’t understand the link between search and incineration. Oh,

Björn Otto: okay. Pretty, pretty, pretty clear and pretty, you know, obviously that you don’t get it again. Uh, the point is that, especially, especially in Germany, we have a no relation, uh, until 2029 that you can’t bring this latch anymore to the field that you can’t use it anymore as fertilizer.

And there’s the same time you have to recover the phosphorus. So it’s a clear way forward. It is written in law. So from 2029 on, in Germany, it is by law that you can’t do this anymore. So what to do with this. Incineration is the most appropriate way, because meanwhile, all let’s say I’m 10 now, 70% of the entire slash, and we are talking about 1.4 million tons, um, of sludge will be incinerated.

So that means about the 30%, which is 500,000 tongues, the need to be a solution. So, and the clear way forward is due to the fact that we have, you know, we don’t have the capacities, but on each and every corner we find mono incineration technologies, or let’s say not technologies, but plants where you can bring the slab to, to burn it.

And I sink there are other pretty cool technologies, like, you know, the gassing, paralyzed carbonization, which you can use also to, you know, to get more phosphorous out of it. I see due to the, we talked about gentlemen, we talk about regulations and that’s why I think there’s some chances are pretty, pretty low.

Antoine Walter: Okay. Maybe in the future, not next year. Right.

Björn Otto: I sink I sink. Um, honestly I think model incineration, incineration in general will win this run about, you know, uh, slash um, special treatment for Germany. And I mean, from there we’ll come to the other countries as well. I mean, um, I’m pretty sure that in five, 10 years, the same law, the same principles, but applied for other countries, um, around Germany.


Antoine Walter: Okay. Last.

Björn Otto: I was at last one. Okay. Yeah, let’s go.

Antoine Walter: It’s all started in July, 2020, went into an epic battle until radically ended the 12th of April, 2021 with the announcement of their agreement, Suez and Veolia, or will they, there’s still a lawsuit ongoing on the role of a French president, the story and the real critical conditions competition has to be realized, which is expected for next week.

I’m betting that after the

and then,

Björn Otto: uh, okay. Oops, slopes stream having connection issues. Uh, but I think, uh, maybe it’s just a banner anyway. I think we are still there. Uh, hopefully, um, yeah, I mean, there is, there is the zoo, is we all year merge a story from Antoine again? Yeah. Tell us why this. Why do you think this will

Antoine Walter: happen? I’m just saying that’s, you know, if you look on the paper, it’s still not done.

And, um, I’m still not sure way to do it. So that was the reason why I put that on the list. If you look there’s the lawsuits, um, there is the fact that now they have to do a bit more of assets selling in order to comply with the competition closes, but come on, it’s still happening. I don’t see how now that I’m in the reach to the non-return points, so it’s gonna happen, but I’m taking the opportunity here to say, you know, it’s an open invitation on 20 foot hole.

I know you’re watching this, that are watching this as well. Just give us a call. We take you on that microphone and we want to understand why, why that’s merger and what’s in it. What will it become? Because. Honestly, I might be stupid, but I’m still not sure. I understood that one. So that was the reason why I’ve put the beds.

Björn Otto: Let’s say let’s, let’s take another bed. I mean, it’s a little bit out of, out of what we have discussed, but why not taking the bed? How long would it last, how long this merger will last? What do you think? I mean, there’s, there’s never an, you know, uh, there’s, there’s, let’s say other way around, there’s always an ending for this.

So when will this happen when they will split again, when someone else will come over and say, Hey, I take these was, but I take the B O your part. What do you think? What is your bet on this?

Antoine Walter: I don’t see that happening at all. Uh, seen, uh, I think, you know, some Barts are called Suez today. We’re, we’re, we’re, we’re called video in the bus would be called Suez against in the future.

I mean, it’s not like monolithic companies, which are doing the same thing for 200 years. They have been moving and their assets have been moving over these two centuries. So I don’t see that group vanishing and disappearing. If I was to look at something, which is really exciting to me, it’s what is the new shoe is going to do?

Because the new Suez is not like a dwarf, neither. It’s the number three in the world. And it’s like, you know, they’re starting a fresh, of course they’re losing very important parts of the group, not discussing that, but they have an opportunity to reshape something when you were working for Suez. And I was working for Sears for a while.

Um, it wasn’t like you had a chance to, to change everything and to turn the tables. Now it’s like, you know, they had, they used to have an arm and, and the foods and those are gone. So they have one arm left and one foot left and they have the ability to decide what they want to regrow. Maybe it’s another arm or maybe it’s something new.

So I would be kind of looking forward what’s happening there, but let me not ramble too much on Suez. Let’s take a bit on what we have into the chat. And I’ve seen one very interesting one which was about, do we have a bet on, um, Here, here it is here it is. Do we have a bet on atmosphere generating water technology?

Björn Otto: I was so pretty sure that you pick this out because this is definitely your topic. So I leave the states yours.

Antoine Walter: It’s not my topic by topic. You

Björn Otto: always coming with this. If you have already Toria meetings, you always saying, Hey, we have to talk about this. We have to talk about this. Well, it is now. It is your stage.

You have two minutes. Come on.

Antoine Walter: So let me just reframe what it is right now as we speak, uh, if you’ve ever been to Geneva, you’ve seen the Genever lake and there’s about two times the Geneva lake, which is floating in water, above our heads at any point of time. So it’s like. Uh, lake of water, which you can tap into, if you, if you have the right technology and the right technology happens to be not that complicated.

When you think of it, if you’ve ever seen a cooling unit next to the cooling unit, you have some water or some condensate, and that’s exactly how you produce water from air. So the base technology is simple. There’s water everywhere. The full question is how efficient it is. And, you know, I’ve been discussing that with on the microphone, on the, on the podcast, how act four is doing that and what he was showing.

And I was not just repeating his marketing and just watch to figure, and it’s that it’s more efficient in terms of cost than bottled water, but that opens another debate. Are people more keen to drink bottled water than Atmos regenerated water? That’s another question. And you were discussing of these companies, which are heavily funded.

One of the most funded, uh, water companies right now is source global, which used to be called a thing zero mass water. And, um, they are. Distributed atmospheric water generation. So they use solar panels. So they’re fully off-grid. Uh, they were roasted by global watch intelligence, which was I’m naming them the most, uh, index, um, inefficient water technology.

There is on earth. So that is one thing I

Björn Otto: hate. I remember the title of

Antoine Walter: why on the other end, they are backed by bill gates, uh, Jack ma and Jeff Bezos. So I guess when you have this kind of backing, whether you’re very good at fundraising, or there must be something in your technology, so. Oh, I’m making so many, so many calls today, but, uh, if someone from source global wants to come on that same microphone in between Buren and me to discuss the point, we’d be interested.

But just to say, yeah, there are various shades of gray. Is it the future? Honestly, it’s the prisons that was the duties exist and they are not that’s rocket science. So would it be a solution for places which have electricity and don’t have water? Probably.

Björn Otto: Um, yeah. Interesting, interesting point. Um, I would like also to, to highlight a little bit a statement from David Pitt, he said water and wastewater efficiency should be panelized, keratin stick.

And we mean, he, he was, he was somehow fighting against, uh, with Sheldon and our shed, but I mean, the idea that someone gets panelized due to the fact that he’s not using the most efficient technology for his water or wastewater. It’s an interesting, isn’t it? So you get penalized due to the fact that you’re not using the best technology for treating the wastewater.

How has that, I mean, I’m talking about the industry. I’m not talking about households. I mean, let’s talk about really the industry to penalize them. If they’re not using, I don’t know the latest membrane technology to get the most efficient, you know, treatment out of the waste water. What are you seeing about?

I think that comes

Antoine Walter: back to the question of how much you believe in the market, because if you believe in the markets, and if you believe in this invisible hand of markets like Adam Smith was, was preaching, then you don’t need to penalize anybody because the cost of water is going to be self-regulating.

All of that. Now fact is that these cost and value of water doesn’t work as smoothly as it should. So I wouldn’t say I’m a blind believer of Adam’s piece. Going and penalizing people for not choosing the right technology. I mean, who decides what’s,

Björn Otto: that’s a fair point. That’s definitely four point. Why not?

Why not giving them let’s say a benefit if they using very efficient technology, I think this way around could work even better instead of penalizing them, but they haven’t been in business. It’s the same. We have now ride with vaccination, right? If you, if you have your two shots or three shots, you can go to restaurant.

If you don’t, you can’t. So you get a benefit that you have your shots. I’m not, I never want to have the discussion, whether it’s good or wrong, I’m just want to say, Hey, this is a little bit the driver, which we could also have follow industry that we say, Hey, if you’re using the most latest technology, and if you take care about water and wastewater treatment and recycling, you should get benefit out of this.

So that would be the right way. I think it would a little bit turn all that speed up our industry. Definitely.

Antoine Walter: I think there’s one limits here, which is. Because honestly you already get the benefit. If you’re using the latest technology, then chances are that the efficiency is paying you. The question is what is the return on investments for degree,

Björn Otto: if you don’t have the money, right?

If you don’t have the money to invest and you can’t get the latest. So I can’t get my Tesla because the Tesla’s pretty expensive right now, even with that will be the best technology for our environment at the moment we have. Yeah.

Antoine Walter: But the, the, the, the question to me here is how. Liquid is the market. How can we help people to invest?

And I don’t think we shall penalize or we shall subsidize. I think we shall make money available in right now. Money is like the cheapest it ever was. So it’s kind of a, of a golden opportunity you should be if you, if you have the project to, to make a very clever solution, which is reusing the water, which is why we don’t have to subsidize it for doing that because on the long run, it is going to be cash positive for you, but what you need.

Time of your start. The initiative is you need to have sufficient investment money. And that is something which you see with the water credit initiative from water.org, which is helping the poorest country to do exactly that, which you see with the development banks in, in many countries, which is helping them to do exactly that.

And which I hope will be the, the ends, the end ID of the infrastructure built in the U S and of the, of the big plans, which are ruled out right now in Europe. It’s make money available for people who want to do good. And don’t, don’t, don’t be philanthropic with it. It doesn’t have to be a subsidy. People will pay back because I mean, energy costs are not going down anytime soon.

And, and what it costs. I’m not going down neither, anytime soon. So I think without blindly believing in markets, you can still believe in them sufficiently to just make money, ideas, regulation, um, background, available for people to go into those latest technology and still thrive.

Björn Otto: Pretty true. Yep. Okay. So did you find another, not another cool comment you want to highlight?

I mean, uh, our, our guests are talking about Monte Python and the whole grade, which is pretty, pretty cool. I mean, I have to watch this movie again very, very soon. Maybe this evening

Antoine Walter: there was a debate. Uh, yeah, I mean, there’s, this

Björn Otto: is what I said, right? Cause suffocation to say that there are other technologies who are more efficient to a more, you know, especially in terms of phosphor recovery, you get much more phosphor recover.

You can much more recovered phosphor with other technologies. If you just go away from incineration. But look at, I mean, who who’s positioning at the market? I mean, look at Veolia, look at veil and look at a ski on water with a leak full, um, They all positioned at the market was a kind of incineration technology because they see there’s a market for the municipalities.

So they are coming up with something and deliver this what the market is going for. And they all in terms of incineration, mostly, unfortunately

Antoine Walter: I just highlighted there, there the common from, from high, because it, it goes into what we were saying. Some stuff is existing. That goes a bit in the same direction then, then, but that’s what the freedom, by the way.

But, um, uh, more generally speaking, because I’m looking at, at the time, I think what you’re saying about the incineration and, and the resource recovery leads us to something different, which we didn’t cover at all, because I don’t see that happening next year, but that is going to happen in the next decade.

And I’ve seen BlueTech research, making a strong bet on that. And I couldn’t agree more than, than to say that everything they explained makes a lot of sense to me. It’s the zero. The zero carbon element, because right now the water industry, because of the electricity by, by, by a big amount, um, energy in general, the water sector is contributing depending on the countries between three and 5% to, to these global carbon.

When you think of. About double the size from the, um, the flight industry. So, um, we hear lots about how much we should not take planes. If we can avoid it. We don’t hear that much about how we should be more efficient in our water management, which might be in terms of magnitudes still pretty similar. If you think of pumps, I think there was a good first study, which is saying that’s 10% of the world’s energy is going into pumps.

So maybe there’s also some, some things to do there. And if that comes as a burden, that countries say, Hey, by the way, when we say zero carbon, it’s zero carbon does zero carbon except for the water industry. That means that the water industry also has to do something. And probably this resource recovery, this, uh, heat recovery, this, uh, clever water management will play a strong role.

Unfortunately, I don’t know for you you’re in, but I don’t see that happening in 2022. Right. In the next decade. Yeah. Most

Björn Otto: probably most probably. All right. I mean that, but that means a little bit, we are coming to an end due to the fact that you was talking so much, we have, you know, we have overcome the one hour, unfortunately, most probably because of the zoo is all your thing.

Is there anything you want to highlight because you are things like this, you’re looking like

Antoine Walter: very short about the news, just to say that, um, we know there’s a name for the new CEO of Suez. It’s a sibling that Susan who’s the actual CEO of . So she will become the CEO of the new Suez by January. I just wanted to highlight that, not to talk always about villians Suez, but just because it’s a woman and maybe there are other countries which are a bit more progressive than that, but in, in France, it’s it’s by far not the rule that that woman get this kind of leadership role.

I’m pretty happy that they took the opportunity with all, everything we know about this merger and everything to put back a woman in charge, because that same group was a bit forward-looking in the past, having Isabel cushy as their CEO who didn’t last that much as a CEO of, of, of GDF Suez. So it’s good to see that the, the idea that we shall see some, some diversity and to, to have this kind of equal places for, for, for male and female, that, that this comes back in the play and that when that they, they appointed a woman as a C, which is by the way, um, uh, uh, if you look at, at her, uh, at her path, it’s the traditional path you would expect from the CEO.

So the thing you can pick as the only thing, which is a bit distinctive is that she’s a woman, but yeah, this

Björn Otto: is pretty interesting that you are highlighting this at, let’s say it’s, uh, it’s, it’s very uncommon for France that you have a woman in charge. I mean, I mean, Germany is, I mean, I wouldn’t know to say this, but Germany.

You know what, by a woman last 16 years. Right. And it was not so bad. So maybe sometimes you should more often look over to your

Antoine Walter: neighbors and you have some news instead of trying to make fun of me

Björn Otto: or not I’m principal or not. But anyway, there was something new. Um, I just, I just read, uh, yesterday that Sunday by announced kind of post COVID rebranding strategy was this was pretty exciting for me because this island has 1.7 million inhabitants.

And until today just 36% is connected to the water. Households are just connected to the water. And the ambition goal is that the installed or the will and store until 2023. 20 megawatt of installation to have a complete supply with sustainable energy for their water. So they entire water systems, entire water supply will be with sustainable energy with solar power.

And that’s pretty ambitious and pretty cool. I like it. Other than that, I mean, they didn’t use our, I mean, we have the water show. Yeah, cool. Uh, we have an own webpage UK. You can, you can, if you like, you can, you can also, you can also get the max. We have some merchandising app to optical, join us and follow us on LinkedIn.

Especially we have a LinkedIn page for the water show. This will be a bigger thing for future. And I bet in 2022, we will dabble our capacity, our followers, and everything with the water show. Thanks for.

Antoine Walter: Awesome. Well, if you want to go to that web page, which you mentioned Buren is the water.show. And aside from that, I share your conclusion and it was a pleasure to, to share that episode with you again, Buren and see that, see all of you next month.


Björn Otto: month’s Merry Christmas and draw at the time, have a, have a good, you know, um, new year and yeah, hope to see you soon in January, fresh and healthy and with new energy. Thanks for watching. Thanks for joining. Thanks again. Bye-bye .

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